I have done an editing on a MP3 by cutting a small portion out to be deleted. Thereafter, saving as default parameters as in the software.
To my my horror the file size has increase double the original size even it is saved as MP3 as the original.
Is there a way to preserves the original quality, without re-encode because it is not necessary to do so.
If without the above simple editing, if I were to do a more elaborate editing like noise reduction and so forth. My guess the MP3 file size would increase further. Is there anyway to maintain the original file size which should be logical and appropriately expect to be so.
Thank you.
Original size and quality after editing.
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piano nick
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:33 pm
Wave33:
1. I just tried what you described: Loaded an existing mp3, file, cut a big chunk out of the middle of it, and saved it as an mp3.
With the chunk cut out, the mp3 file was 2,417 KB (the original was 2,760 KB). When saved as a WAV file, the cut file was 17,778 KB.
Are you sure you saved as an MP3, after the cutting? NOTE - you must change the default "file save" to mp3, because if you just "SAVE" an mp3 file, GW saves it as a "WAV" file, not an mp3.
2. Every time you convert from mp3 to wave, and back again, you lose sound quality.
3. Editing a file (noise reduction, compression, maximizing) should not change the file size. The size of a wave file (WAV, WMA, MP3, OGG, etc) is determined by the time length of the file, not the shape of the wave. Obviously, files in compressed formats (such as WMA, MP3, OGG) are smaller than WAV files.
PN
1. I just tried what you described: Loaded an existing mp3, file, cut a big chunk out of the middle of it, and saved it as an mp3.
With the chunk cut out, the mp3 file was 2,417 KB (the original was 2,760 KB). When saved as a WAV file, the cut file was 17,778 KB.
Are you sure you saved as an MP3, after the cutting? NOTE - you must change the default "file save" to mp3, because if you just "SAVE" an mp3 file, GW saves it as a "WAV" file, not an mp3.
2. Every time you convert from mp3 to wave, and back again, you lose sound quality.
3. Editing a file (noise reduction, compression, maximizing) should not change the file size. The size of a wave file (WAV, WMA, MP3, OGG, etc) is determined by the time length of the file, not the shape of the wave. Obviously, files in compressed formats (such as WMA, MP3, OGG) are smaller than WAV files.
PN
I only cut a small chunk out approx. 2 seconds. It is saved as MP3 but the size bloated. Original file playback time 4.30 minutespiano nick wrote:Wave33:
1. I just tried what you described: Loaded an existing mp3, file, cut a big chunk out of the middle of it, and saved it as an mp3.
With the chunk cut out, the mp3 file was 2,417 KB (the original was 2,760 KB). When saved as a WAV file, the cut file was 17,778 KB.
I am sure it is MP3 not WAV.Are you sure you saved as an MP3, after the cutting? NOTE - you must change the default "file save" to mp3, because if you just "SAVE" an mp3 file, GW saves it as a "WAV" file, not an mp3.
Yeah.. I read about that. That is what I am trying to avoid too.2. Every time you convert from mp3 to wave, and back again, you lose sound quality.
That is what puzzling me, why the increase in size? I know MP3 format increase in size with the increase of bit rate. The higher bit rate, the bigger the file size with the same playback time. I have check the source bit rate and 'Save As' the same bit rate.3. Editing a file (noise reduction, compression, maximizing) should not change the file size. The size of a wave file (WAV, WMA, MP3, OGG, etc) is determined by the time length of the file, not the shape of the wave. Obviously, files in compressed formats (such as WMA, MP3, OGG) are smaller than WAV files.
Update findings..
I done a few tests. Apparently, the source of MP3 is in VBR format.
It seems that the MP3 file under editing would be decompress and compress again when 'Save As' into CBR format. Even when no editing is done 'open' and 'save' function only, creates a higher file size, nearly doubled. Hence, I believe it is re-encoded which the originality is lost. I am able to get a similar file size as the source by choosing the bit rate at 96kbps with CBR. That would loose a lot of quality, as VBR has been noted as a better playback compare with CBR
I am not sure my finding is correct, please feel free to comment on it.
Thank you very much.
I done a few tests. Apparently, the source of MP3 is in VBR format.
It seems that the MP3 file under editing would be decompress and compress again when 'Save As' into CBR format. Even when no editing is done 'open' and 'save' function only, creates a higher file size, nearly doubled. Hence, I believe it is re-encoded which the originality is lost. I am able to get a similar file size as the source by choosing the bit rate at 96kbps with CBR. That would loose a lot of quality, as VBR has been noted as a better playback compare with CBR
I am not sure my finding is correct, please feel free to comment on it.
Thank you very much.
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piano nick
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:33 pm
Wave:
Today's experiments:
Experiment No.1 (NO CUTS APPLIED)
Original wave file = 23,221 KB, saved as VBR MP3 with bit rate varying from 128 kbps to 320 kbps (during the save process, one must select MPEG as "Save as type", then in the bottom box, scroll all the way down to "Custom").
Resulting file size = 2,944 KB
Experiment No.2
This same VBR MP3 (size = 2,944 KB) was then re-saved using the same procedure (select Custom with VBR from 128 to 320). NO CUTS APPLIED.
Resulting file size = 2,901 KB. So by simply re-saving again in VBR MP3 format, the file size was reduced slighty. So, I'm getting different results than you are - your files get bigger - mine get smaller when saved again to VBR MP3!!
One must keep in mind that Goldwave ALWAYS works in WAV format - it ALWAYS converts any other format to WAV. By cutting out any section(s), and resaving as WAV format, the file will inevitably be smaller.
If after modifying the WAV file (shortening, compressing, etc) one wants to put the file into the original format, then simply saving will not do that - I believe you know this, but it still bears repeating for others that are just beginning with GW.
I'm baffled as to what is happening.
There is something that everyone should understand: Compressing a file into any type of MP3 (or other lossy formats) will result in a loss of quality in the file. This loss is not reversible when the file is converted back to a full size WAV file.
PN
Today's experiments:
Experiment No.1 (NO CUTS APPLIED)
Original wave file = 23,221 KB, saved as VBR MP3 with bit rate varying from 128 kbps to 320 kbps (during the save process, one must select MPEG as "Save as type", then in the bottom box, scroll all the way down to "Custom").
Resulting file size = 2,944 KB
Experiment No.2
This same VBR MP3 (size = 2,944 KB) was then re-saved using the same procedure (select Custom with VBR from 128 to 320). NO CUTS APPLIED.
Resulting file size = 2,901 KB. So by simply re-saving again in VBR MP3 format, the file size was reduced slighty. So, I'm getting different results than you are - your files get bigger - mine get smaller when saved again to VBR MP3!!
One must keep in mind that Goldwave ALWAYS works in WAV format - it ALWAYS converts any other format to WAV. By cutting out any section(s), and resaving as WAV format, the file will inevitably be smaller.
If after modifying the WAV file (shortening, compressing, etc) one wants to put the file into the original format, then simply saving will not do that - I believe you know this, but it still bears repeating for others that are just beginning with GW.
I'm baffled as to what is happening.
There is something that everyone should understand: Compressing a file into any type of MP3 (or other lossy formats) will result in a loss of quality in the file. This loss is not reversible when the file is converted back to a full size WAV file.
PN
Thank you very much piano nick!
Your explanation is done very well for me to comprehend. I think, I have to accept a larger file size when I resave back to MP3.
In another matter, it also trigger me to ask a question on the best sound quality for playback, would it be WAV better than MP3 format? How about WMA?
Thank you very much again for the earlier help.
Cheers!
Your explanation is done very well for me to comprehend. I think, I have to accept a larger file size when I resave back to MP3.
In another matter, it also trigger me to ask a question on the best sound quality for playback, would it be WAV better than MP3 format? How about WMA?
Thank you very much again for the earlier help.
Cheers!
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Blandine Catastrophe
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:25 pm
The Wav is uncompressed, then it is lossless.
mp3 and wma are lossy formats, because they are compressed and the space is spared on the hard drive by removing some infos. In both cases, some harmonics will be missing, and it is definitive.
To save an mp3 or a wma in wav format doesn't make recover the missing information. But to re-save in mp3 or wma a compressed file will lead to additional losses again.
mp3 and wma are lossy formats, because they are compressed and the space is spared on the hard drive by removing some infos. In both cases, some harmonics will be missing, and it is definitive.
To save an mp3 or a wma in wav format doesn't make recover the missing information. But to re-save in mp3 or wma a compressed file will lead to additional losses again.
Gloup? :-°
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Togglehead
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:37 pm
- Location: Jersey
Why not save in a NON VBR format...maybe you can get the right file size?Wave33 wrote:Thank you very much piano nick!
Your explanation is done very well for me to comprehend. I think, I have to accept a larger file size when I resave back to MP3.
In another matter, it also trigger me to ask a question on the best sound quality for playback, would it be WAV better than MP3 format? How about WMA?
Thank you very much again for the earlier help.
Cheers!
What is the file? Music, voice, etc? Stereo, mono?
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piano nick
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:33 pm
Wave33:
The best sound will be from WAV files. As Blandine noted, compressed formats are "lossy". Quality is lost in the compression.
Have you ever tried "zipping" a wave file? There is hardly any difference because Winzip or Winrar, or whatever you use for zipping files, doesn't remove anything from the wave file to save space.
The codec used to create MP3's removes some of the higher frequencies. Try an experiment: load a WAV file in Goldwave and use TOOL/CONTROL to bring up the Spectogram - you will find that a 128 kbps MP3 conversion has no frequencies above 16 kHz.
A while ago on another forum, someone suggested that WMA files sound better than MP3 files. I can't tell the difference, but my hearing is getting rusty. Try it yourself. And use the Spectogram to view the frequency output.
PN
The best sound will be from WAV files. As Blandine noted, compressed formats are "lossy". Quality is lost in the compression.
Have you ever tried "zipping" a wave file? There is hardly any difference because Winzip or Winrar, or whatever you use for zipping files, doesn't remove anything from the wave file to save space.
The codec used to create MP3's removes some of the higher frequencies. Try an experiment: load a WAV file in Goldwave and use TOOL/CONTROL to bring up the Spectogram - you will find that a 128 kbps MP3 conversion has no frequencies above 16 kHz.
A while ago on another forum, someone suggested that WMA files sound better than MP3 files. I can't tell the difference, but my hearing is getting rusty. Try it yourself. And use the Spectogram to view the frequency output.
PN
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Togglehead
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:37 pm
- Location: Jersey