CD extraction

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musixman
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Location: Elgin, IL
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CD extraction

Post by musixman »

Is there any problem with CD extraction with "copy protected" CDs. Just want to know before I buy any "copy protected' cds.

I do music for ice skaters and most music comes on CDs.
Stiiv
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Location: Fallentown, PA

Post by Stiiv »

I haven't had the misfortune of having to deal with one of those "copy-protected" cd's, but there is one method that always works, if the cd will play at all on your machine: you can always record from the "wave" or "stereo mix" input. This would not be a "digital" copy, but it'll work.
Stiiv
piano nick
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Post by piano nick »

Stiv:

Not a bad idea as long as his soundcard is of good (excellent) quality. If the soundcard is built-in to the Mobo or came with the computer, I wouldn't trust its quality.

I've used GW to pull a few cd's onto my hard drive, but can't say if they were protected or not. In fact, I don't know how to tell.

PN
Stiiv
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Location: Fallentown, PA

Post by Stiiv »

Niick:

From what I've read, "copy protected" cd's will not play on cd-rom players, & can't be digitally ripped. They're being test-marketed in Europe & Asia.
Stiiv
piano nick
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Post by piano nick »

Stiiv:

I hear you. So he can alway do what you suggested, but the results may sound like the original unless he has a soundcard with a good converter, and these are only in top quality units.

There is quite a bit of talk on the PG Music forum about the E-MU 0404. It has no sounds, so technically isn't a soundcard, but has very good specs. It can be picked up for $100 US and appears to be a good buy.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1 ... 501,00.asp

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp ... ncategory=

I'm seriously considering one of these for recording my piano (which is digital). It would do a good job of digitizing the incoming sound signal from my piano. Presently using a Creative Extigy (external).

In all likelihood, if Musixman had one of these he could use your technique with pretty good results.

These copy protected cd's may create a whole new market for this equipment.

PN
Stiiv
Posts: 335
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 7:29 pm
Location: Fallentown, PA

Post by Stiiv »

Nick -

I'll give you an example of how the "analog rip" technique was useful for me, even with my SBLive OEM:

Finally found my New York Dolls CD, which had been missing since we moved into this house (10+years!)....it was out of its case, badly scratched, but played fine in my various cd players. However, I could NOT rip from this disk digitally, or play it as "CD digital" in Windows. It played fine as "CD Audio".....so I recorded the whole album in analog fashion via GW, from the "wave" input. Fidelity was >= the LP.....I was/am satisfied.
Stiiv
piano nick
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Post by piano nick »

Stiiv:

What are you using for a soundcard?

I suspecting it is fairly high level. And have you heard any other comments about the E-MU 0404?

I realize that E-MU was bought by Creative, but since the E-MU's have no sound "on board" they obviously weren't made for the same market as the Creative cards (gamers).

I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Unfortunately, we are three time zones apart (we are the same zone as Washington state and Oregon).

Thanks.

PN
Stiiv
Posts: 335
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 7:29 pm
Location: Fallentown, PA

Post by Stiiv »

Nick:

I'm using an SBLive OEM card...came with my machine.

I get surprisingly good results, & little noise, from this cheapie card. When I finally pick up a laptop to do my one-man-band thing on the road, I'm probably gonna go for a USB audio/midi interface.

Next desktop machine will have some flavor of Audigy in it...unless they come out with something even better in the interim.

What's yer handle on PG forums? I took your advice & picked up Power Tracks....I'm stumbling a bit with it, but overall it's a Goldwave-like bargain!

Have not heard/read anything about the 404, Nick.
Stiiv
piano nick
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Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:33 pm

Post by piano nick »

Stiiv:

I joined quite a while ago, and there are some very good tips on the software use. Also some very off-topic threads (the most recent about UFO's if you can imagine). The other program is Band-In-A-Box which I know little about.

I use Powertracks extensively, but not quite the way most of the users do: I record my digital piano onto a floppy, then edit on the computer with PT. By edit, I mean, fixing boo-boos, and then I quite often add bass and drum tracks and occasionally some strings or voice background.

When I've finished the midi file tracks, PT "plays" my digital piano, and I use Goldwave to record and edit the wave file. It can be done in PT (as most users do) BUT, I find Goldwave much more powerful and easier to use for recording/editing the wave file.

As I said, the musicianship level there varies from quite amateur to professional. The computer knowledge level varies the same.

PN
DougDbug
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Location: Silicon Valley

Post by DougDbug »

musixman wrote:Is there any problem with CD extraction with "copy protected" CDs.
Well, the whole point of copy protection is to prevent you from digitally extracting the audio! :)

In your situation musixman, I suspect that you sometimes have a limited amount of time to get your work done. So, I'd recommed that you make some practice analog "rips". Like Stiiv said, this will always work. Try it with whatever equipment you have. I suspect with a little post-rip noise reduction, the results will be quite adequate.

In addition to a good sound card, a good stand-alone CD player will have better analog audio than the CD drive in your computer.

Like Stiiv, I don't have any protected CDs (as far as I know :) ). But, I once had a damaged CD that I could not copy digitally. I was surprised that I could not find audio extraction software with error-correction as good as any cheap CD player!

In general, I woudn't worry about copy protection too much. They are still evolving ways of CD copy protection, but they have ONE BIG PROBLEM... The CD spec was written without copy protection, and CDs must play all CD players which (unlike DVD players) don't have any special decrypting ability. So, whatever they try to do to prevent computers from reading the digital data, they can't do anything that makes it impossible for an audio CD player to read it!

If you search the Internet, you can find tricks to "crack" the various copy protection schemes. You can probably find ripping programs that can crack them too... I haven't looked, but there are a couple of (free) programs that can copy encrypted DVDs. These programs seem to be illegal here in the US, and they are probably illegal in Goldwave Country (Canada) too.

Once the "secret code is broken", it's useless. And, they can't change the "code" now, because you can't change all of the CD & DVD players that have already been sold!
musixman
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Location: Elgin, IL
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Post by musixman »

I have 2 sound cards. One that came with the puter another I bought for copying cassette tapes to my HD to "cut" some music. I have it connected to a DJ board. I have a turntable, DVD/CD player and cassette player attatched. I really get great quality in and out. Looks like if I get a CD that wont extract then I shall use this setup.

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it.
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